Posts by Cold Steel

17

What About Adam & Eve?

by Cold Steel in

what are the teachings of the jehovah's witnesses in regard to adam and eve?

i know that they believe the fall was a horrible, horrible mistake and that man was never intended to fall (despite god's foreknowledge).

does the atonement of christ cover their sins or are they to be destroyed after their resurrection?

What are the teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses in regard to Adam and Eve? I know that they believe the Fall was a horrible, horrible mistake and that man was never intended to fall (despite God's foreknowledge). Does the atonement of Christ cover their sins or are they to be destroyed after their resurrection? Or will they be resurrected?

8

Jehovahs Witnesses not a religion ?

by BlindersOff1 in

does anyone have a list of quotes from old publications that promote the idea that jehovahs witnesses are not a religion..

Cold Steel

Well, it was initially founded by Charles Taze Russell of Allegheny, Pittsburgh, in 1872. A member of the Congregational Church, he left it to start an organization called Zion's Watchtower Society, then International Bible Students. Subsequently they presumed to call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses. Many years ago their battle cry was that "there are millions now living who will never die." It's just one of the manmade religions by dissatisfied members of other Christian churches regardless of what they claim. It has everything a true religion of Christ would need except a commission and authority to act in God's name.

Yes, they're a religion.

33

Tell me if this is a stupid idea.

by DATA-DOG in

you know how you sometimes you are going about your day and then an idea hits you?

you say to yourself, " what a great idea!!".

then you think to yourself that maybe it isn't so great?

Cold Steel

Yes I want out, and I want my family out.

Okay, why? Once you're out, what do you want your family to do? Do you have any children? And how do you feel about religion now? Would you want your family to remain Christians or just give up the whole thing?

I'm going to subtly bring up the point that I don't understand why Revelation 20 says that these scrolls will be opened after Satan is destroyed—not during the 1000 years, and then ask him, “Can you explain that to me?”

Do you mean the Book of Life? I don't know what else you could be referring to. You said they were "wonderful new scrolls," and I didn't know whether this was an esoteric reference or whether I missed something.

33

Tell me if this is a stupid idea.

by DATA-DOG in

you know how you sometimes you are going about your day and then an idea hits you?

you say to yourself, " what a great idea!!".

then you think to yourself that maybe it isn't so great?

Cold Steel

The question is, what would you hope to accomplish? And do you want to stay in the church? Let's face it, the FDS is now an integral part of JW theology. From now on, the heirarchy will start with the FDS and end with the FDS. You undoubtedly feel a need to discuss this with the elders, and if the FDS is not God's representatives on Earth, then who is?

Bringing this up with the elders will almost assuredly result in the interpretation that you are rebellious and call into question your loyalty to both the church and its leaders. I'd do it in a heartbeat, but then, I don't believe in the FDS's self appointed position as God's mouthpiece. So you just have to determine what the worst consequences could be and if you'd be willing to "repent" if they forced you into a corner.

5

Dying to find out if you made it to Paradise

by Juan Viejo2 in

i remember as a jw kid listening to a special talk about life after death by lester dugan, a circuit overseer whose mother attended our kingdom hall.

i don't think he was our circuit servant (in fact i'm pretty sure he was not), but he would visit our hall about twice a year when he took time to see his elderly mom.. his talk was about life after death and achieving paradise through good works and staying active in the preaching work.

after nearly 60 years, i remember very little of the bulk of his talk, but i do remember a couple of questions that he answered afterwards:.

Cold Steel

All animals, like men, are eternal. And all animals are covered because of the atonement of Christ and will be resurrected. I’ve heard some Christians say that animals were simply designed either for food, labor or companionship, and thus they don’t have spirits. JWs teach that only humans will be resurrected, but anyone who’s been around a good dog (or cat) knows that animals can love, hate, be envious, feel embarrassment and experience humor. My mother’s cat even launched itself at my dad one evening when he suffered a cramp in his leg. He began moaning and carrying on loudly and reached out for my mother for support. The cat apparently thought my mother was being attacked and he literally put himself between her and my dad, then went for his leg with tooth and claw. Unfortunately, the cramp was continuing through all this and my dad was yelling, “Get the cat off of me! Get him off!” My mother was able to pry the cat off, but it growled menacingly until my dad collapsed on the bed with some salt he takes for such cramps. I also read of an intruder who was attacked as he ascended the stairs to rape the homeowner upstairs. The cat was black and the intruder never saw it coming. He ended up falling down the staircase and breaking his neck. The guy had a long record of criminal violence and sexual assault. (And there are plenty of stories about dogs that defend their human buddies and their families.) I think people who don’t believe animals will be resurrected really don’t know much about them.

So yeah, your dog will survive death as a spirit and will be resurrected just like all humans, both the righteous and the wicked. And chances are that he'll look as forward to seeing you as you are in seeing him.

5

Dying to find out if you made it to Paradise

by Juan Viejo2 in

i remember as a jw kid listening to a special talk about life after death by lester dugan, a circuit overseer whose mother attended our kingdom hall.

i don't think he was our circuit servant (in fact i'm pretty sure he was not), but he would visit our hall about twice a year when he took time to see his elderly mom.. his talk was about life after death and achieving paradise through good works and staying active in the preaching work.

after nearly 60 years, i remember very little of the bulk of his talk, but i do remember a couple of questions that he answered afterwards:.

Cold Steel

Well, you guys are in for a pleasant surprise. Yes, you'll know in an instant because you'll be looking down at your body while you're standing above it. At some point you will be greeted by family members and ushered into the spirit realm, where Jesus preached to the spirits in prison. There will still be a prison for the unrighteous, but it will be a Paradise for those who are good, decent, honorable people. You may even be met by people you knew before you were born...people who lived at different times upon the earth (see Jeremiah 1:5). Don't ever think you could be satisfied staying forever in a garden like Eden! We don't know what we'll become, but the righteous will become joint heirs with Christ, inheriting all that the Father has.

After the resurrection, when your body and spirit will be reunited, you will be able to visit other kingdoms and glories throughout the Universe and things that will amaze you. The earth will later be cleansed by fire and will become a brilliant planet composed of both glory and beauty, suitable for the presence of God. Your body will not be a body of flesh and blood, but a resurrected body of flesh, bone and spirit. Like Jesus, you will be able to go through walls and ceilings, go vast distances at the speed of thought and enjoy relationships with people you've known for untold generations.

At death, you will not know "nothing" as stated in Ecclesiastes. The writer of that book was not even a prophet. He was a philosopher and knew nothing of either life or death. Solomon was a king, and someone who had ruined his life through the taking of many heathen wives and had erected many heathen sites of worship. He was old, tired and had a lousy outlook on life. The NT writers talk of the body as being a tabernacle, with a spirit inside. Leaving it was like taking off a coat or a glove. You may not believe me now, but if you remain righteous, you've got some amazing surprises. Just don't put me in a stupid garden. Adam was never intended to stay there. He was supposed to fall and then be redeemed. Only that way can we, his descendents, become like unto God, as the ancient Christians taught.

14

Books to study before baptism

by QueenWitch in

i'm doing a blog post on dedication and baptism.

is there a comprehensive list of the books needed to study and the years in effect?

i was baptized in 1992 and i think one of the books were united in worship...(blue book).

Cold Steel

There was a little blue hardback book that was called, I think, THE TRUTH THAT LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE. Don't know what years it was in print.

8

British former politician shunned by father because of religion

by Xanthippe in

i was reading in the guardian yesterday about edwina currie, former british mp and junior health minister in the eighties.. when she married out of the orthodox jewish faith her father refused to speak to her again (even though he was an atheist and used to go round to a friend's house for bacon butties).. her mother kept in touch and loved her grandchildren but her father would drive her mum to visit but stay in the car.

.

just reminded me that i am not the only one to suffer from shunning due to relisgious differences.

Cold Steel

Scientology, Mormonism and others religions also have a structured shunning policy in place. Religious leaders want to protect the power and control over people, at all cost and by any means.

That's a pretty cynical view of relgion, and I can tell you for a fact that Mormonism has no "structured shunning policy" established. In fact, LDS church leaders actively discourage shunning because it's more likely to drive offenders away, and the idea is to bring them back. I can't speak for Scientology, but I don't know many Christian religions that practice formal shunning. Some families may decide to shun offenders on their own volition, but I know of no Christian faith that actively encourages it...except the Jehovah's Witnesses and perhaps some Pentacostal or evangelical fringe groups like the Westboro wackos.

In some cases, the Orthodox churches practice shunning, but again it's mostly family oriented. A local priest of a Greek Orthodox church shunned his son when he married a black woman. It wasn't because she wasn't Orthodox because she offered to join. I don't even think it was entirely her skin color. I think it was more because of the drastic cultural difference. I used to like Greek women a lot, but they were only interested in Greek men for the most part. (And Greek men liked marrying blonde gals with blue eyes, but that's another story.) Anyway, the priest's parishioners brought the priest eggs to show their support and to solace him. But they didn't shun the priest's son or his wife; however, the priest and his wife and family did. I think the priest and his family were just used to Greeks and Greek-Americans. They liked Greek food and Greek music, and they loved speaking Greek. A black family, on the other hand, might serve glazed ham, mashed potatoes, deviled eggs, green beans, ice tea for the main course and pie or cake for dessert. While that may be my type of food, many Greeks would prefer eating poison! (And I'm sure the black family would rather eat poison than Greek food.)

Shunning is a natural human reaction, but only cults that are into control actively encourage it because it's an effective vindictive tool and discourages dissension.

20

Has the rescent change in the identity of the FDS been released in print yet

by A.M. Number 1 in

just wondering what wt issue has actually put it down in print.

i know that some of my jw frineds already know about it, but they didn't tell me if it was an announcement at the hall or actually in the wt..

Cold Steel

It seems as though it's a formal consolidation of power. Not that they didn't have it, but somewhere along the line someone realized they needed authority from God. If a committee is going to claim the authority to change doctrine or establish it as being authoritive, it's not enough to just publish it in the monthly magazines. Apparently this has become an issue, and it should. At some point the members of the Governing Body needed to shift the balance from being corporate executives to having the actual authority from God to speak decisively on theological issues.

But how does the information, or data, get from God's mouth to their ears? That's going to be the toughest issue they're going to have to address, and how the mechanics work is going to be the difficulty. They've pretty much ruled out angels, theophanies and visions, so what to do? The Catholics explain the Pope's inspiration as being latent—present but not evident. The Pope makes a declaration and even though he's not aware of any inspiration being present, it is in a way that even he doesn't understand. It's like the assumption of Mary into Heaven. Well, I agree with them...she was assumed into heaven, and it was the Pope who made the asumption! There was no scripture supporting it, neither was there any traditons. It was just something that Catholics think just came from Heaven, was focused into that pointy hat he wears and goes into his head without him being aware of it. Then he declares it! No one ever asks him how it came to him; it's enough that he said it. And as far as I can tell, this is exactly how it comes to the Governing Body. It's latent inspiration. The Governing Body also is self sustaining, and the members are invited to participate. When one of them dies or otherwise vacates a seat, the general membership has nothing to say on who moves into the body. In essence they become dictators, and if you don't like something they say, it's their way or the highway! And not only can they create and change doctrine, they can even turn your family and friends against you.

Now some may say, "Well, there's nothing new about this. Isn't that how the ancient apostles acted and were chosen?" Yes, but they did see angels, have theophanies, dreams, visions and other forms of revelation. The Governing Body does not. Had they been running things anciently, they wouldn't have needed Peter to have a revelation about taking the Gospel to the Gentiles or changing the policy on circumcision...they just would have done it without being aware of how or where it came from. And members wouldn't be justified in debating the blood transfusion issue—because the policy dictating it would come from the Governing Body, and it would no longer be a matter of exegesis, but of revelation from God.

That's quite a change when you think about it.

19

Maybe this is a way to get a Witness to use CRITICAL THINKING ?

by raymond frantz in

i have been trying recently different ways to get fellow witnesses to use their thinking faculties ,one that seems to work is the following :.

"would you believe in the trinity if the governing body told you to ?

because it is not in the bible .

Cold Steel

Your logic in this situation is impaired.

A JW might answer that the GB wouldn't teach the Trinity because it wasn't in the Bible. It would be like asking an Evangelical, "If Jesus told you to believe in Santa Claus, would you?" No! Why? Because it defies reality. And you can carry it on from there. If Santa Claus is the line one draws then where might other lines be drawn? Transubstantiation? People who aren't a member of their religion going to hell?

I know a Pentacostal who doesn't believe there's life on other worlds. She said that it would nullify Christ's atonement. How she arrives at that non sequitur is beyond me. Apparently she thinks God created the Universe to give the earth light at night. All those galaxies, each with billions of stars -- some that are completely invisible -- all made to give man something to look at in the night sky. The trillions of stars out there? Here today, gone tomorrow. It's child's play for God! No problem.

Let's say the governing board is who they think they are and Jehovah is behind them a hundred percent. Creating an "if" statement wouldn't work and shouldn't work. We should all get behind them and sustain them as God's servants. The problem is, they have no credentials. Have they spoken to God face to face, like Moses? No. Have they been chosen of Jesus as the ancient apostles were and have they been on a mount of transfiguration? No. Well, how can we tell they've been commissioned by God? Herbert W. Armstrong thought he had been called of God and he believed in many of the doctrines that JWs believe...only he wasn't on a first name basis with God. Oh, and Ellen G. White thought she was chosen of God and even had some visions of Peter and the Pearly Gates. And God told her he never changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, and she challenged scholars to show her chapter and verse where he made that change. Then there were all those Catholic children who had brunch with the Holy Mother. She wasn't interested in the Sabbath, but she had some warnings for the Popes. And so it goes. Like they say on The Sapranos, "Who ya gonna believe, eh?"

Me? I want credentials.